Walking Dead Continuity Makes Even Less Sense With Timeline Confirmed

AMC has finally confirmed the timeline for The Walking Dead, but instead of settling the timeline debate, AMC has made the issue even more complicated. Apparently, season 8 takes place almost two years into the zombie apocalypse, which isn’t nearly as long as some have expected.

Season 1 of The Walking Dead begins with Rick (Andrew Lincoln) waking up from a coma at least one month after civilization falls apart and the spread of the zombie virus. The following seasons chronicle Rick’s journey, as he gathers together a diverse group of survivors, leaves Atlanta, becomes an important part of a growing community, and goes to war with Negan and the Saviors. An exact timeframe for these events have been a subject of debate among fans, as many are confused as to how much time has passed.

Related: The Walking Dead Season 9 Premiere Will Be Extra Long

In a post on Twitter, AMC provided an answer to that question with a side-by-side photo comparison of Rick prior to the zombie apocalypse, and Rick after being captured by Jadis (Pollyanna McIntosh) in season 8. According to the caption, the photo from season 8 was from Day 632, which means that by the time the All-Out War storyline took shape, two years hadn’t quite passed yet.

For viewers who have watched The Walking Dead for eight years, it may be difficult to believe that the entire series has taken place within just a two-year timeframe. One reason for this confusion is the aging of the characters, particularly Carl (Chandler Riggs). Of all the characters on the series, no one has aged more noticeably than Carl. Chandler Riggs was 10-years-old after taking the role of Carl, and was 18 when he exited the series in season 8. Carl visibly went from a small child to a boy in his late teens, which makes it even more difficult to make sense of The Walking Dead‘s continuity.

However, The Walking Dead isn’t the first TV show or movie to have its timeline complicated by the aging of a child actor, and in some cases it’s an unavoidable continuity issue. It’s worth noting that the show’s timeline does match up perfectly with Fear the Walking Dead‘s, which is important since the two shows recently intersected with Morgan (Lennie James) crossing over to Fear.

The Walking Dead will receive its first major time jump in the season 9 premiere, which will take place 18 months after Negan’s defeat in the season 8 finale. At that point, over three years will have gone by since the beginning of the zombie apocalypse.

More: Walking Dead Season 9 Synopsis & Poster Focus on Rick’s Leadership

Season 9 of The Walking Dead premieres October 7th on AMC.

Source: AMC

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2018-09-12 01:09:00 – Nicholas Raymond

Once Upon A Time: 20 Things That Make No Sense About Emma And Hook’s Relationship

Fans of the ABC hit Once Upon a Time are generally in love with the “Captain Swan” pairing, a romance between Emma Swan and Captain Hook that began long before Emma’s old flame and Henry’s father, Baelfire, bit the dust.

Hook is undeniably the character with both the most swagger and the most eyeliner, which seem to be his two greatest assets, and while Emma Swan certainly deserves her happily ever after like any other hero, she’s had some major less-than-redeeming moments on the show. Some fans wonder if Emma’s character gradually tainted over the years, between her rotten decision-making and selfishness, in order to level down with Hook’s past dastardly deeds. There has to be some reason why Storybrooke’s savior put her own son on the back burner for some pirate romance, right?

From the weird things they’ve done for each other to the things they’ve refused to do for each other, Captain Swan isn’t exactly an ideal relationship. Sure, they’re healthier together than, say, Regina and Graham or Zelena and Robin, but they’ve definitely gone against one another’s wishes, caused each other harm over the years and generally got away with some pretty nefarious deeds, no matter their intentions.

Regardless, the undeniable chemistry between actors Jennifer Morrison and Colin O’Donoghue made this a must-watch couple for countless Once Upon a Time fans.

Whether it’s breaking the very laws of magic or making terrible decisions that hurt themselves as well as others, here are 20 Things That Make No Sense About Emma And Hook’s Relationship.

20 Hook Doesn’t Deserve A Happily Ever After

It’s a recurring theme in the show: why do some villains deserve their “happily ever after” while others don’t? Some argue that those who’ve seen the errors of their ways should get to experience happiness, and while that’s a powerful argument, it doesn’t really work when you’re an evil queen who’s responsible for sending hundreds, if not thousands, of innocents to become worm buffets. Shouldn’t more community service be involved?

The same should be argued for Killian Jones. No matter how some might argue that much of his past was in the name of true love, he still wracked up some pretty sinister notches on his bedpost of evil, and pirating itself is a pretty dark profession in the first place.

19 Their Trip To The Past Should’ve Changed Everything

Remember when Hook and Emma found themselves in a time long before Emma was born? The trip should have changed everything, from Hook recognizing Emma upon meeting her again after running into her in his past to the very marriage between Snow White and Prince Charming itself.

Not only did Emma’s bumbling attempt to get her parents back together make very little sense, but it was so much less meaningful than their true origin story, which is no longer a memory for either of them since it never happened.

We get that writers wanted Emma to demonstrate a closeness to her parents that she’d never known through this timeline circuit, but it just doesn’t work for fans, even if Hook being jealous of himself  is hilarious.

18 Hook Is Hundreds Of Years Older Than Emma

Some age differences between consenting adults are fine, but when the age difference exceeds the hundreds of years, shouldn’t there be a sliver of an issue to overcome? Hook is hundreds of years older than Emma, who isn’t even 40 yet. It’s not exactly a cradle-robber situation, but it still rubs us the wrong way.

Maybe Emma should get to have a few hundred years of experience in a realm where she doesn’t age first just to level the playing field between them.

There’s only so much a person can do in just over three decades of life and she should at least get a chance to out-pirate him.

17 Emma Abusively Interrogated Hook In The Hospital

It seems that no one is able to push Emma’s buttons like Killian Jones, but we’d be blaming the victim here if we used that as an excuse for her brutish interrogation of the pirate in the hospital.

Hook flirted with Emma from the get-go, even during an abusive interrogation while he was in the hospital.

We’d never seen Emma physically harm someone for information before.

Even if it was about Cora’s whereabouts or not, we still can’t wipe of the sick feeling that it gave us.

The Savior isn’t supposed to support torturing someone for information. How can the show support that but not at least minimal imprisonment for hundreds of years of dark deeds, by the way?

16 They’re on Opposite Paths

As mentioned above, some fans think that Emma became the Dark One in order to catch up to Hook in the evildoer department, but there were many instances where she exhibited villainous tendencies far from Rumpelstiltskin’s famous dagger.

Sure, opposites attract, but studies show that couples who stick together often share the same goals, so we’re pretty sure this is a strategy from which romance seems doomed.

Technically, Hook went back and forth between light and dark for a while, some of it not by his own choice, and Emma’s darkness manifested in several different ways, so maybe they’ll be able to save their relationship by chalking it up to “personal growth” rather than “irreconcilable differences.”

15 Emma Betrayed Hook In The Giants’ Realm

Many Emma fans point fingers at Hook for being the bad boy who isn’t good enough for the Savior, but some Hook fans say not so fast.

Remember when Emma betrayed Hook when they entered the Giants’ realm? Granted, she had zero reason to trust him at the time and it predates his beau status by many a minute, but this instance really sheds some light on Emma’s character.

Just as with the hospital scene with Hook, she was willing to enter some gray area for the big picture.

She’s got a set of rules to go by, but those rules really only seem to apply when it comes to people she believes deserves them. Anyone else is basically shark chum.

14 Irreconcilable Differences

Speaking of irreconcilable differences, Hook and Emma really have too many to make it work in a marriage. Many people consider their values akin to who they are as people.

Emma generally doesn’t think it’s okay to wipe someone off the planet in the name of revenge, for example, no matter their scale on the evil-o-meter, while Hook is so eager to literally execute justice that he spends ages attempting to do so.

Does Henry really need that kind of instability in his life?

It’s one thing to have parents with healthy different perspectives; it’s another when your mom is basically the Harry Potter of Storybrooke and your stepdad is into justice Voldemort-style.

13 Hook Gave Up His Ship For Emma

What’s the number one rule in love? You put your loved one’s happiness first, which even means letting them go if it comes to that.

Hook’s relinquishment of the Jolly Roger in order to find a magic bean and return to Emma during the Second Curse may have been one of the most grand romantic gestures we’ve ever witnessed on the show, but it also points to Hook’s love of Emma without her realizing his sacrifice.

Had she known what the cost might be, would she have demanded the gesture?

We’ll never know, but we do know that loving someone means never asking them to give up what truly makes them happy, whether it’s a jalopy in the driveway or on the sea.

12 Hook Shot Belle

Years later, this remains a bone of contention for many fans.

Why was it okay for Hook to shoot Belle and not spend a day in jail for it?

It’s the same old argument against villains getting lucky breaks all of the time, being forgiven for their deeds, even when they cause major pain and trauma for victims.

Being the love interest of the Dark One was Belle’s only crime, and do you know how rough it is to recover from an injury like a gunshot wound? Belle may have lifelong repercussions for the single wound and to this day Hook remains clear of any wrongdoing in the incident.

Paging Sheriff Swan? We sense nepotism here.

11 Emma Is Emotionally Distant From Hook

Even after Hook and Emma are officially a thing, Emma remains so emotionally closed off from Killian that their relationship can barely get off the ground. She keeps her heart closely guarded, and while anyone who’s been in the foster system or abandoned by a lover (pregnant and prison-bound, no less) can attest to the need for self-preservation, at this point she’s adult enough to maybe give a little more in their relationship.

By this moment in their timeline, Hook has demonstrated enough dedication for a little faith from Emma. That doesn’t mean she should marry him right away, but if she’s going to have a relationship she shouldn’t cheat herself or her partner from her full investment.

10 No Authentic Development Or Dialogue

There’s loads of flirty banter, dark threats, interrogation tactics, but where is the authentic couple development or dialogue that a viable relationship desperately needs for us to believe in it, let alone root for it?

The two definitely have the physical chemistry to start the proverbial ball rolling, but when that ball is straight from Raiders of the Lost Ark and there’s no escape, you’re left with characters who are truly flattened by their relationship.

In their defense, Hook and Emma are typically too busy putting out fires to really find out what the two might do faced with piles of laundry, shopping for curtain rods at IKEA, and how to build a live together, but the perils they routinely faced don’t really replace authenticity, no matter how interesting they might be.

9 They Have Too Much Teen Drama

Speaking of Emma’s inability to move beyond her past in order to have a future with Hook, why is there so much drama between the pair?

Sure, they’ve lied to, tricked, and even physically fought one another, but doesn’t that just scream of Judy and Johnny having it out at the Homecoming Dance? Are these two so scarred by woe-begotten past loves that they just can’t figure out how grown-ups make a relationship work?

They’ve been through a lot, both separately and together, and they obviously got it together enough to start their own family. But plenty of regular people do that and still behave immaturely.

8 Zeus Breaks The Laws Of Magic To Get Them Back Together

Randomly breaking the laws of magic via a Greek god in order to keep “Captain Swan” together is ridiculous and even their supporters are not having it. Not only could it have been written differently without breaking the laws that the entire show was based upon, but it also felt like a cheap deus ex machina to the fans. If this were always an option, too many tales could have ended differently.

Why do Hook and Emma get special treatment here?

Do other, perhaps even more deserving, characters just get the short end of the stick because they’re not the hot couple? It certainly seems so.

7 Hook Was Going To Take Out Emma’s Whole Family

Sometimes trauma can bring you closer together; other times, the force of it should be enough to drive you apart.

That’s the case here with Emma Swan, who decides to marry the would-be assassin of her entire family. Sure, he didn’t know her at first, and there were “extenuating circumstances” between his revenge on the crocodile, Cora owning his heart and so forth, but this is the kind of drama that doesn’t make for a happy family Thanksgiving conversation-starter.

It seems like there should be some sort of threshold to mark where a relationship just becomes a ridiculous idea. Perhaps when one of your family members draws blood on your lover, or vice versa?

6 Emma Didn’t Listen To Hook About Marian

Ask any couple what the secret to their longevity is and odds are that you’ll hear many claim that it was the ability to really communicate and listen to one another. That doesn’t translate to blind obedience but careful consideration of the opinion that belongs to the most important person in your life.

This is especially true for important things in life, like whether or not to have children, or whether or not to bring a woman who’s supposed to be five feet under back to the future with you. Even Marty McFly knows that’s a bad idea.

Emma just couldn’t listen to Hook about Marian, which led to Zelena’s deception of Robin and ultimately the archer’s demise.

5 He’s A Pirate, She’s The Savior

Saviors and pirates don’t usually go well together. Even if opposites attract, and they often do, they aren’t usually between the strongest force of good and the person with assassination plans for half her town. The show already has this dynamic between Gold and Belle, not to mention the Queen and Robin, rendering it a little tiresome.

As sheriff, it’s also simply a conflict of interest for Emma to date Killian.

This is particularly true when we consider how he’s never been prosecuted for any of his past crimes, let alone his current attempts on several of their lives. Oil and water can enjoy cohabitation in the same bottle, but they generally repel one another and won’t mix with differences this big between them.

4 Emma Let Henry Live With Regina So She Could Shack Up With Hook

After spending season after season trying to obtain some sort of custody of her son, Emma seemed to not really care as much about sharing Henry with his adoptive mother, Regina Mills, once she shacked up with her pirate prince.

It baffled fans to see Henry living with Regina during this weird pre-honeymoon honeymoon phase, particularly after Regina had proven herself a less-than-ideal custodian several times over.

Despite Regina having mostly cleaned up her act at this point, one might think that Emma would want joint custody of Henry when she finally got her own digs in Storybrooke.

It’s another piece of evidence that some fans use to prove that Emma seems to care more for Hook than her own son.

3 Emma Transformed Hook Into A Dark One Against His Wishes

In an average relationship, either participant might be upset if a partner suddenly sold the house, bought a car, or switched careers without discussing it as a couple. That’s fair.

If a woman suddenly transformed her boyfriend into the Dark One against his consent, no matter her good intentions, it would be a pretty big deal. Fans were even more upset as they watched Hook realize what she’d done and forgive her for it, despite his blatant request that she not make the transformation.

It’s akin to someone who quit smoking after hundreds of years of smoking becoming a smoker again against his will.

What is it with Once Upon a Time and women who force men to do things against their wishes?

2 Emma Forgot All About Neil For Hook

It’s funny how a pair of lined eyes and well-glossed lips will turn a head. That’s what Hook discovered when Emma went gaga over the pirate. She was obviously more into Killian Jones than Henry’s father Baelfire, the supposed love of her life who was only afforded a few brief years of happiness in his complicated, painful life.

That’s not to say that Emma or Killian never had it as rough, either, but at least they got their happily ever afters. Neil merely got a tombstone and his father’s empty promises. That’s messed up.

And we’re pretty sure Baelfire would have a hard time recusing his beloved when he discovered that…

1 Emma Put Hook Before Henry

Remember back when Emma believed that Hook would be a terrible influence on Henry? Seasons later we see her putting Hook before everyone else that she cares about in order to save Hook alone.

Just taking Henry to the Underworld in the first place is Mommy No-No #1.

Let’s be clear: Emma is not a mere Mary Sue as many viewers have claimed. She’s a complex character with clear growth who makes mistakes and generally emits the strength only the side of good can wield. But her relationship with Hook, no matter how satisfying it is on some levels, definitely has its problems, which is what makes it so much fun to watch.

In an age where the anti-villain is more popular than ever, can we even blame writers for scripting in these issues?

What else doesn’t make sense about Emma and Hook in Once Upon a Time? Let us know in the comments!

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2018-09-11 06:09:08 – Sara Schmidt

20 Things About The Joker That Make No Sense

There are few characters, heroes, or villains, that are as famous as The Joker in the world of DC Comics.

Joker is one of the oldest villains in comic book history, debuting in the pages of Batman #1 in 1940. While he wasn’t supposed to be more than a one-shot villain, The Joker ended up becoming so popular that he stuck around and is now a part of comic book history as one of the most recognizable faces in the medium and one of the most interesting villains to appear in movies and television shows as well.

What really makes Joker unique is that he is not your cut of the mill comic book character and a lot of what people know about him makes little to no sense.

A villain like Lex Luthor is a complex character who hates Superman because he is an alien and Luthor believes that he is too powerful to be safe for Earth. When it comes to someone like Thanos, he is a world conquerer who wants, deep down, to make the universe a better place. Captain Cold is nothing more than a thief in the pages of The Flash.

However, no one really knows anything about The Joker, despite the fact that he’s been around for 78 years.

No one knows why he does what he does and a lot of people’s information about the character is actually false.

To set the record straight, here is a look at the 20 Things About The Joker That Make No Sense.


One of the key themes in the Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight is that The Joker often taunted people when he told them his origin story.

There were no less than three different origin stories that Joker told different people and, at one point, he laughed and said that he was always lying about who he was and where he came from.

That holds true from the DC Comics as well. Joker is not someone who has ever had his history laid out — or at least had it done and then had it stick.

There were a couple of cases where Joker’s origin was revealed only for DC Comics to retcon it and proclaim that it was not his real backstory.

No one knows why he looks like he does, commits the crimes he commits, and hates Batman so much.

19 MARTHA Becoming The Joker

When one thinks of The Joker, they think of the clown — the Prince of Crime. However, there is a theme that runs through many comic books and was really slammed home in comics like Watchmen.

Would there be supervillains at all if there were no superheroes? Are superheroes to blame for there being supervillains? Would The Joker exist without Batman?

In the Flashpoint storyline, Flash changed history and a number of things did not happen the way they did in the regular DC Comics.

One of those things was Bruce Wayne perishing that fateful night in the alley, while his parents survived.

His father became The Batman and his mother Martha became The Joker. Does this mean that Joker is not a real person at all but just the antithesis of Batman that would exist no matter what?


One of the comic bits in LEGO Batman Movie was The Joker needing Batman to admit that he is his greatest villain and that they complete each other.

When Batman refuses to do this, mentioning Superman and Bane as his main villains, it sets off Joker to try to destroy the entire world because, without Batman, there is no Joker.

Move over to DC Comics, and Joker is always trying to do something to make sure that Batman is always chasing him — from taking out Jason Todd with a crowbar to abducting and torturing the entire Bat-family in the New 52.

Without Batman, Joker knows that he is nothing and he needs Batman to even survive as a villain.

This adds to the question of whether the evil that Joker has done would have ever happened if Batman was not in the world.


One of the strangest storylines in the history of The Joker was not in the pages of a Batman comic book. Instead, it was in the nine-part series Superman: Emperor Joker.

In that comic, Joker came across the Superman villain Mr. Mxyzptik, who offers up a percent of his power to an Earth villain but accidentally gives Joker 99-percent of his powers.

This makes Joker one of the most powerful beings on Earth.

So, Joker decides to make life hell for everyone on Earth and the planet needs its greatest hero — Superman — to stop him.

So, what does The Joker do? He orders food and then ends up eating the entire nation of China — which honestly makes no sense at all, even for The Joker.


Joker was still the most significant villain for Batman even when DC Comics reset its universe with the New 52.

As a matter of fact, DC chose to commemorate Death in the Family by setting up a new storyline titled Death of the Family.

With the first one, Joker eliminated a Robin in Jason Todd and in the new version, he targets the entire Bat-family to bring Batman to his knees.

When it all started, Joker was in Arkham Asylum and allowed Dollmaker to cut off his face.

It made no sense and Batman simply announced that Joker did it as a proclamation and was sending a message to him.

It turned out that Joker did it to symbolize a “rebirth,” but there had to be a less painful way to send that message.

15 Jared Leto’s inspiration for Suicide Squad

When Jared Leto took on the role of The Joker in Suicide Squad, he made some major changes to the character.

Instead of the white face, twisted smile, and purple suits, Leto’s Joker went off the rails.

He had a gold grill over his teeth, tattoos all over his body (including the smiling grin on his hand), and he dressed like an old-school gangster.

Most people looked at his character and wondered where the influences came from and when Leto talked, he just mentioned gangster movies that had nothing to do with The Joker.

Even makeup artist Alessandro Bertolazzi said that he looked outside comic books, including the 1928 movie The Man Who Laughs for inspiration — but it really wasn’t The Joker comic book fans knew.


Joker and Batman have battled for 78 years now in comic book time, but in the seminal DC Comics series, The Dark Knight Returns, Joker and Batman were in their 60s and the clown knew that their battles were coming to an end.

However, Joker wanted to go out on top and take Batman down with him, and he succeeded.

Joker was in Arkham Asylum for 10 years and when he saw Batman come out of retirement on TV, he set his plan in motion.

He convinced doctors that he was sane and was released.

It was all a setup and when Batman and Joker finally fought, the Caped Crusader snapped Joker’s neck but left him alive.

However, when they were out of the public’s sight, Joker finished the job and made it look like Batman offed him — framing Batman by making the ultimate sacrifice.


Possibly the strangest of the Elseworlds stories that DC Comics created — and one of the most critically derided — was Joker: Digital Justice.

In this book, Joker was old and was about to pass away when he somehow came up with a new way to torture Batman, even after he was gone.

Joker created a sentient digital virus called the Joker Virus that carried on his evil even after he passed away.

The story took place in the 21st Century and both Bruce Wayne and The Joker were gone.

The new Batman is Commissioner Gordon’s grandson and he is joined by a robot based on Alfred and a self-aware computer created by Bruce before his passing.

The book was published in 1990 when computers were becoming the new craze, and looking back, none of it really makes any sense.

12 COMMISSIONER GORDON letting him live

Batman has a strict policy on the non-lethal apprehension of villains — and this includes The Joker.

Luckily for The Joker, Commissioner Gordon is also a very good man, although with what Joker has done to Gordon, it makes no sense that he never pulled the trigger to end Joker once and for all.

In Batman: The Killing Joke, The Joker had a plan to prove to Batman that even the greatest men could lose their minds and their morals if pushed far enough.

To do this, Joker paralyzed Barbara Gordon with a bullet in her spine and then took pictures to make Gordon think that he’d done even worse.

Then, in No Man’s Land, Joker took the life of Gordon’s wife while she was trying to protect a hospital ward of babies.

No matter what Joker did, Gordon always let him live.

11 His treatment of HARLEY QUINN

If there is one person who The Joker mercilessly torments for no reason at all, it is Harley Quinn — the one person in the world who truly cares about the criminal.

Harley was, at one time, a renowned psychiatrist who ended up falling for Joker while working with him in Arkham Asylum.

As a result, she helped him escape and Joker repaid her by making her just like him — including driving her insane.

The transformation of Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad was even more disturbing, but Joker has always bullied her and tried to cause her both physical and emotional pain over the years.

Honestly, Joker has done worse things to Harley than he has even done to Batman, showing that he hurts those he cares about the most.


There are those who know that Joker is a criminal genius, but the fact is that he is a genius regardless.

He is highly intelligent and has skills in both chemistry and engineering.

He created his own Joker Venom, which can maim and eliminate anyone and can turn others insane with just a breath. He can create his own explosives and weapons of all sorts.

People consider Joker to be insane, and he is, but he is also a pure sociopath who doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong and instead does what he does to amuse himself.

He has broken many people with his plans and is smarter than anyone would give him credit for, showing he can even outsmart Lex Luthor on occasion.

9 He’s broken THE FOURTH WALL (long before Deadpool)

Joker shares a trait with Marvel’s Deadpool. Joker has what is referred to as Cosmic Awareness — which also means breaking the fourth wall.

While everyone has become used to Deadpool talking to the audience in both comic books and the movies, Joker did the same thing long before Deadpool even existed on a comic book page.

Joker has often made comments that let people know that he realizes that he is a character in a comic book.

The great thing about Joker — and the difference between him and Deadpool — is that other characters see Joker talking about being a character but dismiss it because Joker is insane.

However, there is no real reason for Joker to have this knowledge and it makes no sense in the DC Universe.


Have you ever wondered why Joker can release his Joker Venom and infect people everywhere but it never bothers him one bit?

It makes no sense and most people can just dismiss it, saying that The Joker is already insane, so it wouldn’t have the same effects on him.

However, DC Comics tried to explain it and it still makes very little sense.

Joker has what is considered tainted blood. In Batman #663, a mosquito landed on Joker and bit him. When it started to drink his blood, it fell to the ground, writhing in pain and choking on his tainted blood.

This is because Joker’s immunity has strengthened over the years due to his constant exposure to chemicals as he experimented.

Most people would perish with the number of chemicals that he came in contact with, but for some reason, it just made Joker stronger.


The origin of The Joker is a mystery and this is something that makes him so iconic.

Honestly, revealing why he is insane and where he came from would be a huge moment and a story that might break sales records, but it would also destroy the character and make him less interesting.

Sadly, Tim Burton tried to do this in his otherwise great 1989 movie Batman.

In the movie, Jack Napier was the man in the alley who executed Bruce Wayne’s parents. Later, Batman was chasing Napier and accidentally sent him into a vat of acid that turned him into The Joker.

It was the classic idea of making the hero’s greatest villain into the reason why the hero was created.

It also was only used for the movie and DC Comics made it clear that this was not who The Joker from the books really was.


Jason Todd perished at the hands of The Joker in Death in the Family and Batman set out to arrest Joker for his actions.

This caused Jason and Batman to have serious problems when the former Robin returned alive later in DC Comics.

Jason was angry that Batman did not avenge him, but that is not what Batman is all about — Batman always saves The Joker’s life in the end.

Why does Batman always save the life of the criminal who has hurt, maimed, and ended the lives of countless people?

Batman always uses non-lethal tactics, but there was also Joker’s Last Laugh where Nightwing beat Joker almost to the edge of life and Batman helped save him so that Dick would not have to live with ending someone’s life.

Batman can’t seem to let The Joker go.


In one of the most surprising bits of trivia in Batman history, The Joker was not supposed to be a lasting villain.

The character first appeared in Batman #1 back in 1940 with Bill Finger and Bob Kane creating him based on the classic 1928 movie The Man Who Laughs.

However, the character was supposed to be there for one issue and would never be seen again.

The character that became Batman’s greatest villain was so popular, however, that the creators went back in and drew a quick panel that showed that he lived at the end so they could bring him back later for more adventures.

What became one of the greatest villains in comic book history was almost a one-and-done villain of the month.


One of the funny moments from the DC Animated movies and LEGO DC movies are characters like Superman mocking Batman for struggling to beat non-superpowered villains.

However, there is some argument that The Joker has a superpower — albeit one that has no basis in reality and makes no sense.

The superpower that Joker allegedly has is the ability to cheat his demise.

There have been many, many times in DC Comics where it looked like Joker was perishing but he somehow managed to pull it out in the end.

It has happened so many times that it has become almost an urban legend that Joker can’t pass away.

He has been in explosions, was electrocuted, shot many times over, dropped from a height that no one could survive, and more, and somehow he always returns to torment Batman for another day.


When it comes to actual superhuman abilities, Joker has none. He barely has average strength and is often shown as frail and weak.

However, he has one thing that really puts him at the top of the list when it comes to dangerous supervillains: he is very smart and devious and his insanity makes him highly unpredictable.

When battling Batman, it is tough for the Caped Crusader to guess his next move, and Batman is a brilliant detective.

Superman is a lot of things, but he isn’t always the smartest guy in the room. This means that Joker has been able to beat the Man of Steel despite having no powers.

In Superman: Emperor Joker, Joker used the powers of Mr. Mxyzptik to drive Superman to the limit.

In Injustice, he really beat Superman by forcing him to take lethal action and become the world’s greatest villain himself.


The Joker was no a sociopath when he first appeared. In fact, it wasn’t until the ’70s that DC Comics changed his character and made him completely insane.

Instead, when he first appeared in Batman #1, he was just a vicious hitman.

Then, for years he was nothing more than a criminal who worked as a thief. He later became a prankster who liked to mess with the people he was robbing.

It wasn’t until 1973, 33 years after his introduction, that Dennis O’Neil returned Joker to the pages of Batman #251 and changed everything about him.

O’Neil made Joker a maniac with impulse control who was deemed criminally insane instead of just a basic criminal.

It is an idea that has stuck with the character and this was when Joker became more than a basic villain and became the true archnemesis for Batman.

1 There might be multiple Jokers

There is a theory that Joker is not just one person. There have been stories where different people have portrayed The Joker.

In Dark Knight Returns, there was a gang portraying The Joker. In Flashpoint, Joker was Martha Wayne. There was also an alternate worlds story where Dick Grayson ended up as The Joker.

However, what about the main DC Comics Universe?

While there is a theory that The Joker has the superpower to never perish, what if he has perished many times over and a new Joker rises up to replace him?

There are even two Joker movies in development with Jared Leto in one and Joaquin Phoenix in the other.

There are many things about The Joker that make no sense, but having multiple Jokers could explain many of those issues.

Can you think of any other things about The Joker that don’t make any sense? Let us know in the comments!

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2018-09-10 02:09:08 – Shawn S. Lealos

Vampire Diaries: 20 Things That Make No Sense About Damon And Elena’s Relationship

The core relationship in The Vampire Diaries is between Elena and Damon. Elena did have major friendships with others, and a romantic affair with Damon’s brother Stefan early on, but the show is ultimately about the love between Elena and Damon.

The problem with that is that their relationship occasionally doesn’t make sense. They have their moments of affection, hostility, and friendship, and while there are scenes that do make sense for each one, there seem to be even more that just don’t add up.

Every show has something about it that doesn’t make sense, no matter how hard the writers, creators, and producers attempt to make everything sensible. Sometimes it’s not on purpose, as continuity is forgotten or characters need to act a certain way– different from their usual behavior– to move the plot along.

Damon and Elena seemed to have more issues than any other couple on the show. Maybe that was because they were the focus, and for many episodes and arcs, they were involved in many other relationships – romantic and platonic.

Much of this list contains behaviors that conflict with previous scenes or dialogue. Some other entries extract parts of storylines that involve Damon or Elena and show you how much establishing those characters is important in keeping their relationship believable and consistent. There are, of course spoilers, so anyone who has yet to finish The Vampire Diaries should tread somewhat carefully.

Here are 20 Things That Make No Sense About Damon And Elena’s Relationship.

20 Damon’s Violent Streaks

Damon has a temper. Many of Damon’s violent actions occur because he’s upset with Elena or she has done something to spark his anger. He goes on reckless sprees, hurting many people in the process.

Elena overlooks this about Damon.

Even as a human, Elena’s moral character becomes weak when she glosses over the violence because a part of her sees the good in Damon. A small argument could be made that after she becomes a vampire, Elena understands what Damon goes through, butElena never had as many outbursts as Damon.

Is that enough to foster a solid relationship – friendship or romantic? For most couples, a temper that results in people getting wiped out would be a relationship-ender.

19 Books to TV Show Inconsistencies

The creators changed some aspects of Elena and Damon and their relationship from the novel series.

In the books, Elena was selfish and always got what she wants. This is different than the caring and loving person in the show. Damon is a completely different vampire who really hated his brother, Stefan.

However, the one thing that remained the same between the TV show and books is Damon’s reactions when he makes advances towards Elena. Elena in the books rejects him constantly, which causes him to lash out with jealousy.

If you haven’t read the books, Elena eventually chooses Stefan as her life partner for eternity.

18 Shallow Feelings from Elena

For many of the early seasons, Elena struggled with her feelings for Damon and Stefan. Damon tried to get her to confess her love for him. She fought it, but somehow managed to reciprocate the same kind of emotion back to Damon.

But that was only on the surface. Elena seemed like she couldn’t grasp what she was really feeling for Damon.

It was obvious to fans that, deep down, she still loved Stefan no matter what she felt for Damon.

That didn’t make sense, since she allowed those outward affections to overtake anything she had for Stefan. It’s almost like she was so defeated and exhausted from the emotions that it was easier for her to simply choose Damon.

17 Elena Forgives Damon For Everything

At its most basic level, Damon and Elena’s relationship is based on control, fear, and physical attraction. Unlike Elena and Stefan as a couple, Elena and Damon have no solid foundation to sustain a long-term relationship.

The main problem is that Damon abuses Elena emotionally and physically way too many times. She shouldn’t simply say, “I see something good in him” to stay with Damon. For example, Damon broke Elena’s hand when she tried to slap him out of frustration. He caught the hand and squeezed it until her bones snapped.

When Elenawent to save her boyfriend at a lake, Damon threw her into that lake because he was jealous. But Elena constantly forgives him, no matter how badly he treats her.

16 Damon loved her doppelganger first

Damon’s returned to Mystic Falls for one reason: to help the woman he loved – Katherine Pierce – for over a century escape the tomb she was in. When he went to free Katherine, he learned she had already left the tomb and never came looking for Damon.

He had been in love with Katherine, but she had never loved him back. As time went on, Damon grew to dislike Katherine. However, he started to befriend Katherine’s doppelganger, who happened to be Elena.

Wouldn’t this cause some awkwardness for Damon?

The woman he had loved for 145 years never returned those same feelings, but here is Elena, who he grew to like, then love. Emotions aside, Elena looking like Katherine probably should have caused more resentment, but things between them progressed as if Elena wasn’t a doppelganger.

15 Too many break ups and make ups

If you take a look at the Damon and Elena’s relationship from his point of view, you might get the impression that he’s indifferent to having Elena in his life. When they are together and “good” (meaning Damon hasn’t gone on a violent streak or done something to Elena’s friends) they are really good.

But they break up multiple times. Once, he claims he broke up with her when she attended college because he saw how he was changing her, so he broke up with her. He tends to cast their relationship, no matter what type it is, aside without another thought. He tries to move on.

When the desire is too great to resist, and they decide to get back together, all is forgiven, which is a big theme between Damon and Elena.

14 Damon shares blood with Elena while she’s still with Stefan

When The Vampire Diaries had Elena share Damon’s blood, creator Julie Plec said that it’s “a little bit of a shout-out to the books.” Blood sharing, we learn from the show, is a very intimate experience.

In one episode, Damon decides to share his blood with Elena. Except Elena is still with Stefan at this point. And being very intimate, as Plec says, “you really shouldn’t be doing it with anybody who’s not your one true vampire love.”

Elena had no idea what was going on, but Damon did.

Stefan was furious, but Elena didn’t seem quite as upset as Stefan. Once again, it was Damon’s selfish behavior that threw a wrench in things.

13 Damon attacked her little brother

In the season two episode “The Return”, Damon finds out that Katherine never loved him. He goes to Elena’s place to wait for her. When she shows up, Damon and Elena have a talk.

Damon informs Elena that she is hiding her true feelings for him from herself, so he kisses her. Elena finds it necessary to tell him that, while she truly cares about Damon, her life will always be with Stefan.

This angers Damon greatly. And in response to Elena, Damon finds her brother Jeremy and snaps his neck. Elena does tell Stefan that she hates Damon, but when Damon and her finally get together, the incident with her brother is completely forgotten. Jeremy did come back to life later.

12 Damon got with her mother

At the time Damon and Isobel start their relationship, Damon is a cured vampire. Damon had turned Isobel into a vampire, who then returned to Mystic Falls later. Isobel wished to cause harm to Elena, who happened to be her daughter.

Elena doesn’t seem bothered by the fact Damon got with her birth mother.

It is possible that Elena doesn’t know, but you have to assume when Isobel threatened Elena, she probably used her past with Damon to cause further issues.

Another reason Elena probably doesn’t seem bothered is that Damon and Isobel only had a physical affair. Still, if Elena had learned how violent he was to Isobel to make her leave town, Elena would be bothered.

11 Damon Used his Special Powers on Elena in the pilot

In the premiere episode, viewers were treated with a display of Damon’s powers. While Elena was sitting in a cemetery, writing in her diary, Damon conjured fog and crows.

Elena didn’t really freak out. She acted like it was an everyday occurrence. Perhaps she had other stuff on her mind, like the passing of her parents.

Even early on, Elena’s reaction to this new supernatural world around her was sometimes indifferent. With Damon, she focused on getting him to act good, despite knowing what he was capable of.

Maybe she wasn’t all that afraid because she knew something viewers didn’t: that the fog and crow powers would never be used again after the pilot.

10 Damon blames the Sire Bond for Elena’s love

The sire bond is a connection between a vampire and the person they turn. The sired then shows their loyalty by following the orders of their sire– sometimes called a master.

In The Vampire Diaries, Damon creates a sire bond by turning Elena. Elena realizes her strong love for Damon and professes her love to him, but Damon only thinks she is saying that because of the bond.

We learn in the show that the bond only affects actions, not emotions like love.

If anyone should know this, Damon should. He’s over 170 years old and was sired himself by Katherine. Why was he skeptical about her love confession? He pretty much flat-out didn’t believe it.

9 Elena Chooses Damon… Twice

The cornerstone relationship in The Vampire Diaries is between Damon and Elena. They each had other relationships, but it was their love and desire that took center stage in the television program.

Except Elena had to choose Damon twice, which, in the grand scope of the show, didn’t make sense. While the show was on the air – and even to this day – fans were either Team Damon or Team Stefan.

To choose to be with Damon more than once may have meant she had fallen out of love with him– or it could have meant Elena always had feelings for Stefan, who she probably fit better with anyway.

8 The Diaries

The word is in the name of the TV show. If the creators wanted to use the word “diaries” merely to represent an account of the lives in Mystic Falls, then they shouldn’t have teased viewers with actual diaries.

Stefan and Elena had diaries, which were catalysts to how they met. It was interesting to see her viewpoint of events through her human eyes, and vice versa with Stefan. It’s clear the diaries were important.

Thus, it’s understandable why they ended up together in the beginning. But what about Damon? He didn’t start writing in a diary until season 7 and it wasn’t really seen again.

With how much they had in common, Stefan and Elena should have stayed together. Damon and Elena just didn’t have the compatibility.

7 Elena’s Hallucination Relationship with Damon

When Damon perishes, Elena is extremely heartbroken, so she decides to do something drastic. Elena begins taking special substances to induce hallucinations of Damon. She doesn’t want to believe the person she loved is gone.

What she’s doing is dangerous, mainly because of the type and amount of substance she’s ingesting. Eventually, she sees the harm and goes to Alaric to remove the memories of Damon. What doesn’t make sense is what comes before.

Not one of her friends steps up to force some kind of intervention, subtle or direct.

Do some people see it and don’t care? Elena is having a ghost-relationship with Damon at this point, which is an unhealthy way to grieve, but most of her friends apparently feel it’s the right way for Elena. No matter how hazardous.

6 Damon turned Elena and pushed vampire blood on her

Vampires usually turns humans by biting their necks. For the most part, the humans who are turned don’t know what’s happening to them until it’s over and they wake as vampires. Some humans want to change. Elena, however, had no desire to become a vampire. Still, Damon turned her.

While Elena is trying to adapt to drinking animal blood, Damon pushes his own blood on her.

It could be considered selfish, but afterward, Elena was just fine with Damon turning her and giving her his blood. At least, the method wasn’t as painful and violent as some others on the show.

Could she have been angrier at Damon for doing what he did? Sure, but as Elena often did during the show, she forgave him.

5 Damon repeatedly compelled her

Because Damon has the ability to control others through “compelling,” most of his relationships progress this way– included his bond with Elena.

Damon “compelled” her on a few occasions, and essentially controlled her during the sire bond situation.

What makes no sense is that at no time did Elena realize this was happening to her, even when she wasn’t under Damon’s control. She never really questioned her actions while under the influence, nor did anyone step up to tell her some of the things she did or thought or said were out of character for her.

Also, no one ever decided to confront Damon about “compelling” or controlling others, especially Elena.

4 Damon Abused Elena’s Best Friend

Damon’s attitude towards Caroline was one of disdain and indifference. He continuously hurt Caroline through a variety of ways (which seems to be Damon’s modus operandi through life) including meaningless hook-ups and thinking that she was just something to play with.

In less than 24 hours, Damon has bit her neck, then attacked her the next morning. Later, Damon “compelled” Caroline to wear a dress he wanted to see her in. It got worse form there.

Elena was horrified at first to find out Damon treated her friend like this.

She even called him cruel, but all was forgotten when it came time to share her feelings for him. Elena should have at least been worried about being treated the same way.

3 Elena only loved Damon after she was turned

It was established in another part of this list that Damon uses his special abilities to get people and vampires to do what he wants. With Elena, he doesn’t let their romantic relationship progress as naturally as it should.

Instead, he hurries up Elena’s love for him. In many ways, Damon knew what he was doing and who he was hurting when he turned Elena into a vampire. He was definitely aware that Elena’s emotions would be heightened, especially after the sire bond.

In truth, Elena didn’t realize she had a deep love inside her for Damon until after she became a vampire. Is it possible that if she wasn’t turned she’d still be with Stefan?

2 Everyone Is Afraid of Damon

Damon has lived a long life (about 180 years) and has befriended many, fell in love with many, and made enemies of many. No one has ever really had the gumption to stand up to him — except Elena.

Damon wasn’t the most powerful vampire, and if enough people got together, they could find a way to put Damon in his place. But the demure little human, Elena, wasn’t afraid of him and had no issues calling him out when it suited her.

Unfortunately, it seems like she never really called out the bad things he did. Her reasoning was that she saw something in him that wasn’t all evil, even when he was visibly doing evil things.

1 Damon’s Love A Problem

As this list has established, Damon has a problem keeping his anger subdued. From the first episode, continuing through season after season, Damon lashes out at the smallest provocation.

In season 3, Damon gets his neck broken when Elena visits Ester. At that point, Elena calls Damon’s love “a problem.”

It’s easy to understand why: all you have to do is go back to any scene where Damon is mean to Elena.

Elena regrets the words and tries to apologize and make excuses, but Damon ignores all that. He goes out with Rebekah. A totally appropriate response, right? Never mind the fact that Elena has already forgiven him for so many things already.

What didn’t make sense about Damon and Elena’s relationship for you in The Vampire Diaries? Let us know in the comments!

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2018-09-07 04:09:33 – Gregory Thompson

Supernatural: 20 Things That Make No Sense About Castiel

Over the course of 13 seasons, Supernatural has continually reinvented itself, finding ways to remain relevant for fans both new and old. However, nothing shook up the show’s mythology quite as much as the revelation that angels exist in this world.

Portrayed brilliantly by Misha Collins, Castiel was introduced in the 4th season premiere. He has been a part of the series in some capacity ever since. Whether the Winchesters were visiting Heaven, fighting their way through Hell, or just hanging out with God, this trench coat wearing angel was in their corner. Sure, Cas has gone off the rails occasionally, but who on the show hasn’t by this point?

Castiel has become as integral to the story as the Winchesters themselves, at least as far as most fans are concerned. The angel has become so overwhelmingly popular in Supernatural fandom that it’s likely that him being written off the show would elicit just as much outrage as the loss of Sam or Dean. He’s officially a part of Team Free Will.

As much as we love both Supernatural and Castiel, there are plenty of aspects of either that don’t quite add up. Thirteen years is a long time, so inconsistencies are simply unavoidable. That being said, some of these errors are more egregious than others. From the nitpicky to the truly ridiculous, we’ve done our best to compile a list of everything about this beloved angel that makes us wonder if the writers were always paying attention.

Here are 20 Things That Make No Sense About Castiel.

20 He is never actually in any real danger

If we’re being honest, the stakes kind of disappeared from Supernatural years ago. After Sam and Dean had both been resurrected multiple times, fans began to realize that the afterlife wasn’t the end for these guys. Even when we briefly lost either of the Winchester brothers, there was never really any sense of permanence to it. At this point, Cas is in a similarly safe situation.

Like Sam and Dean, fans have said goodbye to Castiel on more than one occasion, but never for very long.

Whether it’s because Collins loves making the show as much as Ackles and Padalecki or because the writers know that fans would riot, Cas is never in any real danger.

19 His inconsistent knowledge of pop culture

If we could sum up Castiel in one statement, it would probably be, “I don’t understand that reference.” For years, Cas was quite pop culture-challenged, but all that changed in season 9. Having Metatron upload decades worth of information into Castiel’s brain was certainly a shortcut for him to understand Sam and Dean’s references. 

Suddenly, Cas could throw in a Lord of the Rings comment, stumping us all. Seriously, a few seasons prior, the dude hadn’t even seen Back to the Future and we know he doesn’t have time for a LOTR marathon! However, thanks to Metatron, he is “pop culture savvy.”

The thing is, if he now possesses all of that knowledge, why can he not come up with a more believable pop culture alias than “Agent Beyonce?” It’s funny, but it doesn’t make much sense.

18 His varying power levels

This is kind of an issue with angels on the series in general, but since Castiel is the feathered friend that we spend the most time with, his issues are the most conspicuous.

Angel powers are basically written to suit the narrative.

Sometimes certain angels have specific abilities, but other times, or other angels, lack them.

Only angels can wield an angel blade– except when a human can handle one just fine. An angel can read minds and end lives with a snap of their fingers– unless for the sake of the plot, a person needs to get close to one.

It doesn’t help that Cas has lost and regained his powers multiple times, once attained Godhood and also sometimes has simply “run out of juice.

17 Does he or does he not taste food?

The question isn’t whether or not angels can eat, but whether or not they can enjoy food. We know that they don’t actually require calories for sustenance, but can they even taste what they are munching on?

Gabriel has been shown to appreciate the finer things that life has to offer, including food. Balthazar and Cas have also been shown to enjoy a tasty snack. However, the latter has also stated that food tastes like nothing other than “molecules” to him.

Castiel has indeed eaten, and not just when he was influenced by Famine. Even still, the actual desire to chow down doesn’t make much sense if he couldn’t even taste the food.

16 He never changes his clothes

We get it, Castiel’s trademark look was inspired by the incomparable DC mage, John Constantine. That is incredibly cool, but is there a reason why the guy barely ever gets a wardrobe change?

Again, he likely doesn’t need one, but couldn’t the show give the guy some new clothes every once in a while?

He’s not Charlie Brown.

We know that human needs like eating and sleeping tend to fall by the wayside during angel possession. Perhaps that means that we take can also take sweat out of the equation.

However, it still stands to reason that Cas would be more comfortable if he sometimes had the opportunity to take off his trench coat and stay a while.

15 How is he still in the same vessel?

According to Chuck, aka God, Castiel has been rebuilt more times than the deity can count. Apparently, angels and demons don’t have much love for humans or their meatsuits, so why would Cas be so partial to his?

Obviously, the practical answer is that fans love Collins, so he absolutely cannot be recast. However, there hasn’t been much explanation on the series as to the reasons that Castiel still inhabits the same vessel.

We know that Jimmy isn’t in there anymore, so really, Cas could’ve looked like anyone when God chose to resurrect him. With other angels and demons changing vessels like outfits, it doesn’t make much sense that Castiel is still walking around wearing Jimmy’s.

14 His God complex

When creator Eric Kripke left Supernatural after telling his five season arc, the show experienced some major growing pains. Season 6 is considered by many fans to be a series low. The writers seemed unsure of how to continue a story that had been given such a clear beginning, middle and end. Eventually, the show found its way, but there were plenty of hiccups in getting there. A major one is the way that Cas was written that season.

The angel still holds the title for best entrance to the series and remains one of its most beloved characters. However, while his character was originally developed with care, season 6 transformed him from a stalwart hero to a mediocre villain.

It was an interesting plot twist, sure, but one that hardly felt earned. 

13 Why was his vessel able to house Lucifer?

There are several questions about vessels that have yet to be answered by the writers in a satisfactory manner. However, much like angel powers, the vessel criteria seems to be rewritten right along with the plot.

Michael and Lucifer’s vessels must be Dean and Sam respectively – unless Dean isn’t available, in which case his half-brother would suffice. Sam cannot house Lucifer without first preparing his body by drinking gallons of demon blood, but Dean need not do the same for Michael.

Speaking of which, how exactly was Jimmy Novak’s former meatsuit able to contain Lucifer? There was no mention of the body being prepared for the fallen angel or coming apart after saying yes to him.

Perhaps this was because this husk had been rebuilt with the express purpose of housing Castiel, but it’s never been addressed.

12 How did he grow a beard in Purgatory?

This is an incredibly minor complaint, but Dean somehow found the time to give himself a clean shave in Purgatory, so why then did Castiel wind up with a beard?

It was established that those two dudes were pretty much constantly on the run in that place, so who’s got the opportunity to shave? Apparently, Dean Winchester can always find the time.

Perhaps everything stops in Purgatory – it would make sense. Maybe things like hair and fingernails simply cease growing. The issue there is, of course, Cas’ beard.

Either both of them should’ve grown facial hair or they both should have remained clean shaven.

Giving a beard only to Castiel really didn’t make any sense.

11 He wasn’t actually a fallen angel

For all of Castiel’s disobedience to the rules of Heaven, the angel hadn’t actually fallen when the Winchesters needed his blood to help them create the weapon that could defeat Dick Roman.

When the brothers were struggling to do a ritual using the Blood of the Fallen, they used Cas’ blood.

He may not have been in favor with Heaven, but he hadn’t actually fallen either.

Perhaps the bone somehow understood not to take things too literally. After all, the boys also used Crowley’s blood as a “leader of fallen humanity” and he wasn’t created to rule Hell. He was basically just a particularly clever and powerful demon.

10 Is it Cas or Cass?

Most fans spell Castiel’s nickname as Cas. However, that’s not the end of the story. The scripts refer to the angel as Cass– which really doesn’t make much sense, given that it’s the short form of “Castiel.” It also appears with this spelling in both official companion books and tie-in novels.

Even the season 4 DVD subtitles used Cas and Cass in equal measure.

Despite fan insistence that the correct spelling is Cas, canonically it is definitely Cass. Kripke stated that he spelled it that way initially because he thought that it looked cooler, but it officially became canon in season 9 when Metatron spelled the name that way. It has also appeared on Dean’s caller ID as Cass, so regardless of fan feelings on this one, the writers have made their choice clear.

9 We’ve never seen his true form

Okay, so seeing Castiel’s true form wouldn’t be good for the vision of our heroes – it certainly hasn’t been for certain side characters – but it would seem that after all these years, fans would’ve caught a glimpse of what Cas really looks like.

Of course, some things are better left to the imagination and it would certainly be difficult for the visual effects team, especially on a TV budget, to put a face to “a multidimensional wavelength of celestial intent.

So, we’re not saying that it’s not for the best that we have yet to see what Cas actually looks like, but Supernatural has always been more show than tell, so it’s kind of odd that we haven’t.

8 His abandoned wife

Supernatural has been on for a long time, so certain storylines have kind of been abandoned over the years. Castiel’s wife is one of those.

You can be forgiven for forgetting that he was ever ever married, since Daphne Allen appeared in a single episode back in season 7.

She discovered Cas, after he’d lost both his memories and his clothing. It’s unclear if their marriage was legally binding, considering the fact that “Emmanuel” didn’t actually exist.

Even still, the fact remains that Cas was in a very serious relationship with Daphne, but as soon as he regained his memories, she was never heard from again.

Sure, there was really no reason to bring her back, but there also kind of wasn’t much to justify her existence in the first place.

7 His relationship with Claire Novak

Castiel’s relationship with Claire Novak is just plain weird – and not in an endearing way. For one thing, he’s the reason that she no longer has either of her parents. She spent years resenting him and for good reason.

The angel ruined her life and, on top of that, he still looks exactly like her father.

Yes, Claire was eventually able to rise above these feelings and Cas has done everything that he could in order to make it right. Even so, their relationship doesn’t make sense. It’s one thing for Castiel to want to mentor her after everything he’d done, but he remains a constant reminder of everything that she has lost.

6 How was he resurrected by God?

As excited as fans were when Cas returned in season 13, his resurrection did raise certain questions about the other times that he was brought back. After the angel was reunited with the Winchesters, he explained that it wasn’t God who returned him to Earth, because God has no power in the Empty – where angels go when their lives end.

If that’s true, then how has God brought Castiel back before?

The only logical explanation is that he didn’t actually lose his life prior to this.

At a certain point, Jimmy went to Heaven and all that remained was Cas, so perhaps he wound up there as well and all God had to do was rebuild his vessel. This could be true, but who knows?

5 He’s banished by angel sigils (sometimes)

Generally, Supernatural has done a decent job with this one, but there was one particularly notable exception. The angel sigils will banish every angel in the vicinity– unless of course the plot dictates that they won’t.

In season 4, Cas banished Zachariah, but he remained. This could’ve been because he drew the sigil in his own blood. However, most other times Castiel was ousted right along with everyone else, regardless of whether or not the sigil was his own doing.

Angels were still a new addition in season 4, so it’s likely that the writers had yet to nail down all of the show’s angel lore. Much like vessels and angel powers, the rules for sigils can always be rewritten to fit the plot.

4 He’s a series regular, but disappears all the time

Fans love Castiel just as much as Sam and Dean, and were incredibly excited when Misha Collins became a series regular in season 5. Although this means that our favorite angel has been a part of the show ever since, his appearances are often sporadic. This kind of makes sense, as angel powers sometimes tend to become a deus ex machina, but then why make him a series regular?

He was credited as a special guest star during seasons 7 and 8, appearing in a handful of installments. In a given season where he was counted as a series regular, he roughly appeared in about half of the episodes. That’s nothing compared to Jensen and Jared’s schedules. Most Supernatural fans want as much Castiel as they can get.

3 Other angels are still willing to follow him

Castiel hasn’t always possessed all of the hallmarks of a great leader, but still, the angels are willing to follow him. This doesn’t make all that much sense, considering everything that he has done.

His past transgressions include releasing the Leviathans, causing the angels to fall, and oh yeah, deciding that he was the new God. It’s not as though angels aren’t a judgmental bunch. Seriously, you know that those guys know how to hold a grudge.

As much as we adore Cas, he has demonstrated time and time again that he may not be the best choice to lead the angels. The question isn’t so much “why would he want to lead?” as much as it is “why would they still follow?”

2 His convenience store meltdown

Sure, Cas isn’t human, but the guy has been in existence since the dawn of time. It stands to reason that he would understand how eggs work. However, his convenience store meltdown in “The Clip Show” proves otherwise.

Yes, it’s a funny scene that exemplifies both Castiel’s knowledge of Dean and his devotion to him. However, it’s also more inconsistency in writing of his character.

Aside from the fact that he’s breaking eggs in shock and randomly destroying property, the angel is also attacking civilians now. Seriously, all that convenience store clerk did was run out of pie, which isn’t even his fault. It seems unlikely that Cas would lose it on him like that, regardless of the headspace that he was in at the time.

1 Was he actually God or just a mutated angel?

The whole “Godstiel” situation creates more questions than it ultimately answers. God may have left the building, but he was still in existence. Knowing that, it seems unlikely that Castiel could’ve actually become God. If he was, wouldn’t he have been able to overpower the Leviathans?

Cas had obviously transformed into something more than your average angel, as the angel blade did not work on him, but what exactly had he become?

Perhaps, he was simply an angel with an overinflated sense of self. According to the Reaper, Cas seemed more like a “mutated angel” than God – and that guy would probably know God if he saw him.

This is the explanation that makes the most sense: that Castiel wasn’t actually the man upstairs, despite declaring himself so. However, it was never actually made clear.

Can you think of anything else about Castiel that doesn’t make sense in Supernatural? Let us know in the comments!

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2018-09-06 07:09:01 – Jamie Gerber

Naruto: 20 Crazy Fan Theories About Team 7 (That Actually Make Sense)

When a series stays at the forefront of pop culture discussions for decades, there’s bound to be lots of fan theories about the characters. Naruto has existed in the form of manga, anime, and movies for twenty years.

A lot of character backstory was never explained and fans have also had time to think about their fair share of plot holes. As a result, fan theories abound all over the internet.

Some fans prefer to think about the motivations of the villains in the series, while others like to see just how crazy their predictions can get. With Team 7 always in the middle of the action, theories about these characters come up a lot.

When the series debuted, Team 7 was formed based on the Academy Exams. This was the ninja academy where Naruto and his friends essentially attended primary school tested their students before they could move on to missions.

Based on their test scores, the teams were meant to balance the top students with the weaker students. Team 7 consisted of Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke, and was led by Kakashi.

Over time, that team grew to include newcomer Sai as Sasuke left the village. They also got a temporary team leader in Yamato when Kakashi was sent on missions without them.

With varied backgrounds and so many story arcs surrounding the team, fans spent a lot of time with them. All of that time gave them plenty of time to form theories about the mysteries involving the characters.

We’ve rounded up some of the most interesting of the bunch for these 20 Crazy Fan Theories About Team 7 (That Actually Make Sense).

20 Naruto’s Love Life Was Manipulated

Throughout the series, it was clear that Hinata Hyuga always had a crush on Naruto.

Naruto, meanwhile, appeared to be infatuated with his teammate Sakura. In the end, Sakura explained to Naruto that his feelings for her were simply an extension of his competition with Sasuke, whom Sakura loved.

Hinata and Naruto eventually ended up marrying and starting a family. Some fans think Hinata ending up with Naruto wasn’t simply fate in The Last: Naruto The Movie.

There are those who believe Hiashi Hyuga may have somehow manipulated the two into falling for one another.

Always wanting his clan to be the best, the elder Hyuga would have wanted to make sure his clan had plenty of power at its disposal. This includes a nine-tailed fox sealed inside of Naruto with lots of power.

Married to Hyuga’s daughter, Naruto wouldn’t let anything happen to the Hyuga clan.

19 Naruto And Konohamaru Are Related

Konohamaru looked up to Naruto when he was just a young boy at the Academy.

Cut to 20 years later, and it’s Konohamaru standing in for his former sensei Naruto at his ceremony to become Hokage. The two share a tight bond, and some speculated that the bond might even be familial.

We know that Konohamaru is a Sarutobi because his grandfather was the third Hokage. What we don’t know is which of his parents was a Sarutobi.

When the Uzumaki clan lost their home and scattered to other villages, Naruto’s mother came to Konoha. S

he’s the only one we know of, but it’s possible that one of Konohamaru’s parents might have been an Uzumaki as well, as he shares Naruto’s large chakra reserves, which is an Uzumaki trait.

We’re unlikely to see this confirmed, but it’s fun to think about.

18 Sakura Was Supposed To Master Genjutsu

Something that has bothered fans for years about the Naruto franchise is whether or not Sakura would ever master genjutsu.

Early on in the series, Kakashi pointed out that she had a natural affinity for it, even teaching her how to release herself and others from hallucinations.

Just a few episodes into Naruto Shippuden, her former sensei also referred to her a “genjutsu type.”

Despite her seeming aptitude for it, we never see Sakura learn any special genjutsus to use.

The only shinobi of the Leaf Village who seem to use genjutsu regularly in their fights are Kakashi and Kurenai.

Fans believe that franchise creator Masashi Kishimoto had intended for Sakura to be a genjutsu user, but somewhere along the way, he changed his mind. Instead, she became a medical ninja.

17 Kakashi’s Mother Was From The Inuzuka Clan

One long held theory about the sensei of Team 7 is just where his affinity for dogs, and ninja dogs in particular, came from.

Throughout the series, we’ve seen many shinobi sign contracts with summoning animals. The animals provide them backup in a fight.

Tsunade has her slug, Orochimaru has his snake, and Jiraiya (and later Naruto) has his toads.

Kakashi, despite not appearing to have a contract with any giant summoning animals, can summon a lot of ninja dogs.

His connection to dogs is never explained, but there is one clan in the series that also has an affinity for dogs. The Inuzuka clan, where Kiba’s family is from, raises dogs.

Kakashi is also described as having a sense of smell sharper than Kiba’s, which is another trait of the clan.

Since Kakashi’s mother’s identity has never been revealed, fans speculate she was an Inuzuka.

16 Dogs Got Kakashi Through Tragedy

With Kakashi’s affinity for ninja dogs, there’s one interesting fan theory that some might have taken as a joke.

Posited on Reddit is the idea that Kakashi has been able to overcome so much tragedy in his life because of those very same dogs he can summon.

Throughout the course of his life, Kakashi lost his father, his mentors, his students, and his best friends under tragic circumstances.

It seems like everyone who gets close to him loses their life. One person can only endure so much suffering.

In the real world, some dogs are trained in therapy. They comfort survivors are horrific experiences.

Some therapists even employ dogs for depressed patients.

Perhaps Kakashi is able to endure the tragedy with the help of his own version of therapy dogs in the shinobi world.

15 Naruto’s Family Now Shares Kurama’s DNA

When the children of Naruto and Hinata were revealed, fans had one question: why do Boruto and Himawari have whiskers?

In the series, Naruto has whiskers on his cheeks his entire life. It’s an artistic choice to show that he has the nine-tailed fox Kurama sealed inside of him.

What’s interesting is that his mother had the fox sealed inside of her as well, but she didn’t have the whiskers.

Instead, it appears that she passed a bit of Kurama onto Naruto while pregnant with him, just as Naruto did to his children through Hinata.

This makes fans wonder if there could be a boost to Boruto and Himawari’s abilities as a result. The tailed beasts have a lot of unique abilities, but they also have immense chakra reserves, just like the Uzumaki clan.

14 Sai Was Supposed To Have Copy Powers

Characters like Kakashi and Sasuke have the sharingan, an ability in their eye that allows them to copy the powers of others. The ability is pretty rare, as only the Uchiha clan is known for the sharingan.

When Sai was first introduced to the series, Sakura went through some of his artwork. As she flipped through his picture book, the images made fans wonder if Sai was going to have a copying ability as well.

The images in the book showed Sai fighting an opponent, and then using their weapons after defeating them.

His pictures seemed to indicate that he would be stealing or copying powers, but nothing ever came of it.

Instead, all of Sai’s abilities are rooted in his artwork. Many fans have theorized that Kishimoto changed his mind along the way.

13 Sasuke Married To Continue The Uchiha Bloodline

Fans are very clear on how Sakura feels about Sasuke. Her crush when she was a child became something of an obsession as a teenager.

As an adult, she’s clearly in love with her husband. However, it’s less clear how Sasuke felt (or feels) about her.

After defecting from Konoha, Sasuke tried to destroy Sakura on numerous occasions, and even came pretty close to doing it. Sakura, however, never turned her back on him.

The single driving force behind Sasuke through the series has been his devotion to the Uchiha clan. Even if he was the only one left, he wanted to avenge everyone else.

It makes perfect sense that he would want to restart the clan with his own family, even if he wasn’t head over heels for his wife the same way she was for him.

12 Kakashi Actually Had The Mangekyo Early

Fans don’t see Kakashi activate the mangekyo until well into his adult years in the series, but many think that he had it long before this.

The mangekyo is a special form of the sharingan. It’s activated when the sharingan user witnesses the loss of someone they love.

While the Uchiha clan are known for the sharingan, Kakashi has it because his best friend Obito gave him one of his eyes after he was pinned by falling rock. The latter thought he was leaving it as a parting gift, but he survived.

Obito later witnessed Kakashi take their teammate Rin’s life. Obito’s mangekyo is then activated.

With both young men caring deeply for her, it’s likely Kakashi’s would have been activated as well, even though we don’t see it.

11 Yamato Is Tsunade’s Son

We don’t know a ton about Yamato. In fact, Yamato isn’t even his real name – it’s a code name given to him by the ANBU.

As a child, Yamato was orphaned, and then kidnapped and experimented on. He eventually got out of Orochimaru’s clutches as the only child to survive the villain’s experiments.

He went on to become a powerful shinobi and the equivalent of a secret agent before briefly filling in for Kakashi in Team 7.

During the time that Yamato was orphaned and experimented on, Tsunade was traveling the shinobi world and gambling away all of her money.

It’s entirely possible that Tsunade actually gave birth to Yamato during this time period.

It would explain why he survived the experiments, which involved manipulating his DNA with that of one of Tsunade’s ancestors.

10 Sakura Did Develop A Crush On Naruto

Though the Naruto franchise is devoted to the battle between good and evil, there’s a large group of fans interested in the romance.

Until they reached the end of the series, there was much debate about just who would end up with whom.

Naruto started a family with Hinata, while Sakura started one with Sasuke.

However, plenty of fans still believe that Naruto’s past crush on Sakura was reciprocated during Naruto Shippuden.

Her respect for him grew after the two year jump when he went away to train.

She saw what a powerful ninja he became, and they treated one another more like equals.

At least one fan speculates that it was then that Sakura had her own crush on Naruto, but she never acted on it because she knew how deep Hinata’s love was for him.

9 Sasuke Will Return To His Dark Side

During his teenage years, Sasuke did some horrible things in the name of power and revenge. He was immature and believed that he was on the right path.

As an adult, he’s spent most of his time trying to make amends.

Sasuke spent that time not only making amends, but also spying for the Hidden Leaf Village, and learning about the darkness inside of him.

As one fan theory points out, Kurama, who reads unhappiness in others, knew that Sasuke’s darkness could never be completely erased.

At this point, it would probably take a lot to push Sasuke back over the edge, but now that he’s a major character in Boruto, fans could see it happen.

If something were to happen to his family or friends that he couldn’t stop, he might return to the young man who wanted revenge.

8 Sasuke Will Bring Sarada Back From The Edge

On the flip side, there are also a lot of fans who believe that Sasuke has enough control over the darkness that plagues the Uchiha line that he won’t fall prey to the anger and violence within him.

Instead, they think he’ll have to save someone else from it.

The franchise has long pointed out that the Uchiha bloodline is cursed.

Uchihas in particular seem prone to using violence to solve their problems. In Boruto so far, Sarada doesn’t seem to be heading in that direction, and she has been able to stop herself from going too far.

However, one day, she might not.

It’s when that one day comes that fans think it will be Sasuke who can talk her down. She doesn’t know everything about her family’s past, and Sasuke revealing it all to her might be enough to stop her.

7 Naruto’s Childhood Was Manipulated

Before Kurama could be sealed inside of Naruto, the nine-tailed demon fox went on a rampage through the Hidden Leaf Village.

Many shinobi lost their lives, and survivors resented that the fox still existed. That resentment was taken out on Naruto.

Naruto was left to fend for himself as a child. Nearly everyone in the village was rude to him through his years at the Academy. Adults and children alike would either ignore him or target him with abuse.

Many fans think this treatment was purposeful. Naruto’s isolation made him appreciate the people who cared about him later in life.

The way he was treated also made him empathetic to many antagonists, making him more likely to talk someone down than fight them.

Could an entire village have conspired to turn him into a more empathetic shinobi?

6 Sai Is Really An Uchiha

Thanks to the mysterious background of Root members, we don’t know much about who Sai was before he was conditioned to work for the organization.

Members of Root put the organization above all and are trained to not only forget their past, but also to not experience any emotion.

When Sai joined Team 7 after Sasuke left, he began to learn about teamwork, love, and just how to let himself feel things. During his introduction to the franchise, plenty of fans referred to him as Sasuke-lite since he didn’t quite fill the void left behind.

Some fans went a step farther, though, as they believed that Sai could have been related to Sasuke.

After all, we don’t know anything about his past, and his original artwork did seem to indicate an affinity for copying, just like the Uchiha clan’s sharingan.

5 Kakashi Was In Love With Obito

Many fans have wondered why Kakashi never settled down and had children. There’s been plenty of speculation, but some think tragedy in his past might be the reason.

Kakashi’s original ninja team had quite the love triangle going on. Rin was in love with Kakashi while Obito was in love with Rin.

Kakashi witnessed both of their tragic ends, or so he thought. He was forced to bring an end to Rin’s life, which is something that Obito never forgave him for.

Because of this, Obito set out for revenge.

Fans believe that this particular turn of events hurt Kakashi even more than he let on. He wasn’t just hard on the future shinobi he trained, but he also closed himself off to a love life.

The love triangle would truly be complete if Kakashi was in love with Obito and couldn’t move past the tragedy.

4 Naruto Will Teach Kawaki

Most of the higher ranking shinobi, and the Kages in particular, have been teachers of the younger generation.

We know that at some point Naruto taught a few classes at the Academy and he trained Konohamaru, but other than that, it doesn’t seem like he led any ninja teams.

Some fans have theorized that he took more of a Tsunade approach to working with upcoming shinobi, giving specialized training to one at a time.

It makes sense for his relationship with Konohamaru, but we also might get to see him train Kawaki in Boruto.

Hiruzen Sarutobi trained Orochimaru, who turned on him; Jiraiya trained Nagato, who turned on him; and Minato trained Obito, who also turned on him.

There seems to be a bit of a pattern with powerful shinobi who want world peace training those who start all out wars.

3 Sasuke Created Kara

Following the events of the war, Sasuke hasn’t settled in Konoha for long. Instead, he’s spent a lot of time wandering the shinobi countries, gathering information for Naruto and trying to redeem himself.

Perhaps that redemption came with an idea.

Kara is a new group that surfaced in the Boruto series. It appears that their goal is to bring an end to the shinobi lifestyle.

Some fans think the new group of antagonists might have been created with a different idea in mind, though.

If Sasuke created Kara, the aim would have been to give the shinobi something to fight for. Banding together against a common threat would strengthen the alliances between shinobi nations.

The need for shinobi would rise again, just like it did in times of war.

Battling Kara would actually preserve the shinobi way of life.

2 Naruto Will Become The Big Bad

Naruto was always the hero. He wanted to do what was best for his people. Even when Sasuke turned his back on the Hidden Leaf, Naruto was determined to bring him back. He’s a good guy.

As we all know, though, a hero can live long enough to see themselves become the villain.

We’ve seen plenty of well respected shinobi turn to their darker natures for revenge, and some fans think Naruto might go that route as well.

Unless Naruto was driven by a need for revenge, like Sasuke early on in the series, it’s difficult to imagine him as a full out villain.

His alternate universe counterpart Menma in Road to Ninja gave us an idea of what that would be like.

It seems likely that Naruto could make a mistake that inadvertently makes him an antagonist down the line.

1 Team 7 Was Not Protected From The Infinite Tsukuyomi

During the Fourth Shinobi World War, it seemed as though Sasuke was able to protect his teammates from the massive genjutsu created.

While all of their allies were caught in the Infinite Tsukuyomi, Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura continued to fight.

The genjutsu caused a mass hallucination where the shinobi in battle experienced an ideal world. This imaginary world was built based on their deepest desires.

For example, Shikamaru saw a world where his sensei was still alive

Some fans believe that Team 7 was never actually protected, but that the events that followed were part of one of their own versions of the genjutsu.

After all, Naruto achieved every dream he ever had following the war, and so did Sakara. Kakashi became Hokage, and Sasuke was redeemed.

With all of them living out their dreams, the Infinite Tsukuyomi seems possible.

Did we miss any crazy theories about Naruto‘s Team 7? Which theory do you think is most likely to end up being true? Let us know in the comments!

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The Office: 20 Things That Make No Sense About Jim And Pam’s Relationship

Over nine seasons, The Office gave us quirky character after quirky character. A number of these characters became couples with co-workers, doubling up on the weirdness. You remember some of the best couples: Andy and Angela, Dwight and Angela (secretly through some of the series), Andy and Erin, Erin and “Plop”, Michael and Holly.

Of course, the biggest relationship in The Office was between Jim Halpert and Pam Beesly. Jim was the forlorn paper salesman constantly pining for the receptionist, Pam, who was perpetually engaged to Roy until the “Booze Cruise” episode. In the early seasons, Jim dated while Pam was single, with Roy, or back in Scranton (when Jim was in Stamford).

However, Jim and Pam seem to be one of the more inconsistent relationships in The Office. This falls on the writers, and you can see changes in Jim and Pam after they finally got together.

This list examines aspects of Jim and Pam’s relationship that don’t make sense when you place it under a microscope. The examples given are all from events that take place with the show. No footage from behind-the-scenes or webisodes are used. That way, if you want to check out the examples in question, you can go to the normal episodes on DVD or on a streaming service like Netflix.

Ready for an analysis of Jim and Pam’s relationship, covering seasons one through nine?

Here are The Office: 20 Things That Make No Sense About Jim And Pam’s Relationship.

20 All-Around Liars

Jim and Pam lie a lot– and they aren’t little white lies either. Sometimes they lie as a couple, and sometimes together.

The odd thing is, both are completely okay with it.

Pam manipulates the office and lies to her co-workers to obtain the office administrator position. She tells the office she’s found a replacement building when Dwight starts cutting costs, but Pam never had intentions to move the branch.

Jim straight-up lies and makes up a story about his jury duty time: he was sent home early, but he took the rest of the week off to help at home. He and Pam find ways to lie to Dwight all in the name of pranks. Basically, they get away with a lot.

19 Jim didn’t go to Pam’s Art Show

When The Office started showing Pam’s artistic side, she eventually had some of her work featured in an art show. Pam invites everyone from the office, but on the night of the event in the episode “Business School,” very few co-workers show up.

Oscar and his boyfriend Gil make an appearance, except Gil isn’t impressed, calling Pam’s work, “motel art.” Michael Scott does come and loves the drawing of the office building so much he buys it. Roy comes, but only because he thought it would score him points as a boyfriend.

One person absent was Jim. Supposedly a good friend, Jim should have found a way to support Pam’s dream.

18 Pam Didn’t Trust Jim with Cathy

Pam didn’t trust Jim, although he’d never really given her a reason not to. When Pam was about ready to go on maternity leave with her second child, she trained a new replacement, Cathy.

Cathy was cute, fun, and had a good sense of humor. It was the moment Pam saw Jim and Cathy laughing together that Pam’s jealousy surfaced.

To her, it appeared the two were flirting.

Pam wanted to prove that Jim found Cathy attractive, even though Jim vehemently denied it. She went to extremes, getting Dwight involved with his strange methods to prove it. Why didn’t she take her husband’s word for it?

17 Jim had to give up his dream for Pam

Jim had a dream in season 9 of starting a company based on an idea he and a roommate conceived in college. When his friend was actually going to do it, Jim got on board, excited to be a part of it. Now Jim had a reason to work hard at a job.

One of the main reasons he wanted to do it was to provide a better quality of life for his family. Jim was confident he could be very successful at it. Yes, Jim was aloof about Athlead, but Pam was stubborn about his time away.

She essentially took Jim’s dream away because Jim ultimately gives in and quits Athlead for a while.

Pam does change her tune, but probably because the guild was eating at her. And she probably remembered how Jim supported her art dream.

16 The lame proposal

For the most part, the writers have kept the characters consistent through the series. Attitudes, reactions, and behaviors remained steady. One stretch that didn’t make sense was with Jim and Pam.

When Jim was courting Pam, he performed what Pam called in season 9, “big Jim gestures”, like the teapot or with “dinner and a show” on the rooftop. Most required some planning on Jim’s part.

Jim’s marriage proposal to Pam was slightly out of character.

He conceived it while talking to Michael in the morning. By lunchtime, Jim had e-mailed Pam at Pratt to meet him at a gas station about halfway between them. He asked her to marry him in the rain. Even Angela had said later that the proposal was basically weak.

15 They don’t fight until season 9

On a first viewing, Jim and Pam’s relationship seems sweet– full of romantic gestures and scenes. They are so cute that you’ll often find newcomers to the show hoping to aspire for a relationship like theirs.

This goes on season after season. There’s really no turmoil between them until the ninth season, when Jim helps start the Athlead company. Up until then, as a couple, Jim and Pam barely had any fights or arguments. The worst occurred when Pam thinks something Jim said to her dad caused her parents to divorce.

For a show with a documentary theme, Jim and Pam didn’t have a realistic relationship either as boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife until the final season.

14 Jim mistreats other women

Jim’s crush on Pam was the catalyst that made Jim treat other women badly.

Jim was so focused on Pam that he treated the women he was dating poorly.

Katie was the first girl he dated in the show. Jim gave her a ride home, and they became a couple soon after. Katie helped Jim get his mind off Pam. Then, in “Booze Cruise”, when Pam and Roy finally set a date for the wedding, Jim gets upset and takes it out on Kate by breaking up with her.

With Karen, a similar thing happened. It came out that the timeline of Jim’s crush on Pam didn’t add up. Karen confronted him about it, and he eventually told her he still had feelings for Pam. Karen and Jim subsequently broke up.

13 Jim Reported Pam to H.R. out of jealousy

In the episode “Conflict Resolution”, Pam finds out someone made an anonymous complaint to H.R. against her. Michael took it upon himself to resolve all the complaints turned into Toby because Michael felt Toby wasn’t doing his job.

Pam is really bothered by the complaint and tries to get the person to confess. The complaint was that the person thought Pam shouldn’t be planning her wedding on work time at the office.

Near the end of the episode, during a photo shoot of the workers, Jim admits it was him that reported her. But it was more he was frustrated (and probably hurt) he had to watch her go through with marrying Roy. Pam was mad for only a moment, but she should have been angrier longer.

12 Jim Invades Pam’s Personal Space Often

In the beginning, when Jim and Pam were friends, Jim encroaches on Pam’s personal space several times. On occasion, it’s flirty on both sides, but in some scenes, Pam is awkward with how close he is.

The worst moment was during “The Fight”. Michael and Dwight visit a dojo to settle a dispute by fighting. The whole office goes. Pam and Jim hang out in the background play fighting. At one point, Jim blocks a light punch and spins Pam around and grabs her in a bear hug.

Pam’s shirt gets pulled to her mid-riff, and she’s clearly uncomfortable.

Later, Jim tries to apologize through e-mail, but as is often the case with Jim, the apology or situation must be about him.

11 Pam is a doormat

It’s clear that Pam is an after-thought in many of her friendships and romantic involvements. Roy was in charge of their relationship, and many of his actions made us dislike him, but Pam still went along with what Roy wanted.

Similarly, with Jim, Pam’s emotions and feelings and emotions were often undermined. When Jim made her happy (with the teapot, for example), it was all about Jim’s feelings. When he confessed his feelings in “Casino Night”, it was still about Jim and his frustration when Pam didn’t say what he wanted her to say.

A big, abrupt change happened after she called off her wedding with Roy. She expressed and stood up for herself better when she realized she was interested in Jim.

10 Jim stopped encouraging Pam

When Pam realized she could attend art classes through Dunder-Mifflin in “Women’s Appreciation”, Jim told her she should do it. She was excited until Roy discouraged her.

As her boyfriend, Jim encouraged Pam to apply and go to Pratt. He helped her reason out why it was a great idea. It was her dream to go into art design more than casually, and Jim promised that they’d figure out how to make their relationship work.

Except while at Pratt, Pam didn’t do so well in a class and had to retake it. Pam wanted to quit because she was overwhelmed and missed Jim. Surprisingly, Jim let it happen, though it would have only been another 3 months.

9 Brian the Boom Operator messing with them

The boom operator for the documentary, Brian, suddenly became an important character in the ninth season. He obviously had a crush on Pam, which was evident when he playfully bumped Pam with the mic at one point.

Brian also saved Pam from betting beat up by Frank, then warehouse worker who drew butts on Pam’s mural. Pam got revenge, but Brian had to use the mic to knock Frank down. Then Brian fought him.

Jim knew about this incident, but Pam kept some of the conversations she had with Brian while she talked with him when Jim was away.

When Jim found out about one of the more emotional chats she had with Brian, he was upset she kept them secret.

He confronted her about it but then both seemed to let it go after that. More discussion was probably needed.

8 Pam is “Full-On Corrupt”

After unsuccessfully being a paper salesman, Pam decides to trick her way into a promotion. A vendor stops by the office and ultimately asks who the office administrator is when no one knows how to help him. Pam confidently stands up and proclaims she is.

Then she gets the bright idea to talk her way into an official position complete with raise. Since the Sabre/Dunder-Mifflin merger is relatively new, she uses that to her advantage.

Pam tells Gabe – who is really the one who can approve the job – the paperwork and raise must have gotten lost in the merger. Then, she manipulates the department heads for signatures. Gabe figures out what Pam is trying to pull, but she bluffs him when he should have told her no.

7 Jim Didn’t support Pam’s salesperson dream

When Michael Scott left Dunder-Mifflin to form his own paper company, Pam was the only one that quit to go with him. Pam had one stipulation: she wanted to be a salesperson, not a receptionist.

Pam did get the first account at the Michael Scott Paper Company. When David Wallace agreed to buy out Michael’s company, Michael fought for Pam to continue being a salesperson. But she wasn’t very good, maybe servicing five accounts or so.

As one of the top salespeople at the Scranton branch, Jim should have mentored Pam on sales techniques.

She was willing to learn and hinted once (when she asked Jim, “Tell me I’m a good salesman”), but Jim either didn’t pay attention or couldn’t be bothered.

6 Their sudden Communication breakdown

On the surface, especially in the beginning of their romantic relationship, Jim and Pam appeared to be a couple in constant sync. They had a moment of incompatibility when Pam went to Pratt, but otherwise they communicated well.

That changed when Jim started collaborating with his buddies about Athlead. He kept that from Pam, going behind her back to have phone meetings. When Pam did know, and they planned to invest, they decided to do so up to $10,000. Jim does as they had talked about so he doesn’t lose his spot, but Pam gets upset.

From that point until Jim steps away from his position at Athlead, their communication faltered, which was different from the previous seasons and probably contributed to the animosity.

5 Pam’s Hypocrisy About Jim’s parents’ house

In the episode “Frame Toby”, Jim buys his parent’s house as a surprise for Pam. Because it was a surprise, Jim wasn’t able to talk to Pam about it. The only downside to the house was the picture of the clown that was apparently important to the “structural integrity of the house.

Another surprise he had was the garage transformation to an art studio. Pam was ecstatic, amazed he had done something as grand as that.

In season nine, Pam vents to another person about how Jim bought the house without asking her, and he’s consistently prioritizing his company in Philadelphia without consulting her. Then, Pam goes ahead and sells the house without talking with Jim.

4 Pam doesn’t tell Jim she broke up with Roy

The kiss on “Casino Night” is one of the best and memorable moments in The Office. Pam maintained her loyalty to Roy, which threw Jim for a loop. You can tell he expected Pam to give up that life to be with him.

Time passed, and Jim went to work at another branch to try to get over Pam. However, Pam called off the wedding to Roy, but Jim didn’t find out until “The Convention” when Michael told him.

Pam – who had always said they weren’t single at the same time – could have told Jim by email or phone.

Additionally, the office was aware of Jim and Pam’s deep platonic friendship and that it was probably more than that. They didn’t say anything prior to the convention either.

3 Jim is not a great dad

With both kids, Jim was excited to become a father, but it turns out, he is a mediocre dad, and Pam doesn’t call him out on it.

In “The Christening”, Jim was adamant he included an extra onesie when CeCe dirtied her diaper. In “Viewing Party”, Pam is left to deal with a fussy CeCe, and even when Dwight offers and is successful at quieting CeCe, Jim is reluctant to get beer and pizza for Dwight at Pam’s insistence.

Michael Scott gives the award for “Best Dad” to Jim in the episode, “Michael’s Last Dundies”, the thank you speech didn’t include Pam at all. She mentions it to him, but lets it go for some reason when Jim responds, “Didn’t I?

2 Jim’s stalkery tendencies

When you really take a look at Jim as a character, he exhibited the behavior of a stalker. One of the first signs was when Jim mentioned that one of the yogurts Pam was eating had expired. That’s a detail that provided an excuse to talk to her.

In the early seasons, Jim always seemed to be around Pam.

Jim showed jealousy when Pam was at Pratt. Roy had told Jim, “You were just a friend to her” when Jim mentioned Pam had made friends at the college, one who was chummier than the others. In a fit of distrust, Jim got in his car and almost made the trip to check up on her.

1 Jim & Pam Are Okay With Infidelity

Despite knowing Pam was engaged to Roy, Jim Halpert actively pursues her. He flirts, gets her to participate in pranks, and finds ways to be near her.

In “Casino Night”, Jim openly admits his feelings for Pam and informs her he wants to be more than friends. Later, Jim goes to her in the office and kisses her, and Pam doesn’t pull away. It was wrong for both of them.

They also knew Angela was cheating on Andy with Dwight. Neither Pam nor Jim stepped up to tell Andy. If they had, it may have saved some heartache.

No wonder they have trouble trusting each other.

What doesn’t make sense about Jim and Pam’s relationship in The Office? Let us know in the comments!

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